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Testimony of Michael Norfleet, who was questioned by U.S. Attorne

April 25, 1997

Testimony of Michael Norfleet, who was questioned by U.S. Attorney Patrick Ryan. Cross-examination was done by Cheryl A. Ramsey.

(Norfleet, a former recruiter for the Marines, testified that his Marine headquarters were in the Oklahoma City federal building, where he went on the day of the bombing.)

A. Well, I went over to the other side of the floor and I began talking to Gunnery Sergeant Bussell and to Sergeant Snydacor, our two supply sergeants; and just about the time I got hello and good morning out of my mouth, the bomb hit.

Q. Now, about what length of time was it from the time you saw the Ryder truck at the intersection until the time that you got up there on the floor and the bomb hit?

A. I don’t know. A couple of minutes. It wasn’t that -- it wasn’t that long.

Q. Now, tell us in your own words what you heard, what you saw, what happened after the bomb hit. ...

A. And as the bomb hit, I remember -- I remember Sergeant Snydacor saying, “Well, holy shit, there’s a -- you know, a gas explosion.” And then -- and then, at the same time, I threw up my left arm to protect myself, and that saved shrapnel from entering my left eye.

But I took a piece of glass from the top of my head, and it flayed open my right eye; and it essentially just expunged and bust the whole eye; and in the process, it cut an artery in my forehead. It cut an artery here in my cheek; and at the same time, it cut an artery on my wrist.

Q. Are you blind in your right eye?

A. Yes. ...

And the sergeant looked at me and he says, “Sir, you look really bad.”

But I knew I was in good hands because Sergeant Snydacor had been a Desert Storm infantry Marine and he had gone across the trenches. ...

So what he did is he laid me on a table and he started to look for bandages to administer first aid to me; and while I was laying on that table, I could feel the life ebb out of my veins. I just knew that I was losing strength and that if I stayed in the building, that I would die. ...

And then I got up off the table and with his help; and with Gunnery Sergeant Bussell’s help -- they guided me to the back of the building, climbing over the waist-high rubble to the back stairs of the federal building; and then I walked down the six flights of the federal building.

And what I remember as I went down the six flights of stairs is I was amazed, first, that the stairs were even there because the building was gone, and the only thing I could see, because of my limited vision, was following a blood trail of somebody that had gone down the steps before me. And that just kind of, you know, was like the yarn leading me out of the maze, was that blood trail, and I followed it out the building. ...

THE COURT: Miss Ramsey, do you have questions?

MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.

Q. And did you see Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City that morning?

A. No, I did not.

Testimony of witness Richard E. Williams. He was questioned by Ryan.

Q. What is your job today?

A. Today, I’m the manager for the Oklahoma Customer Service Center, which manages all the federal buildings and leases in the state of Oklahoma. ...

THE WITNESS: On the morning of April 19, for me was a typical workday. ...

Q. Did you have a meeting scheduled that morning?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And how long did this meeting last?

A. We adjourned the meeting about 8:55. ...

Q. All right. What’s the next thing that you remember?

A. Next thing I remember, I came to lying in a fetal position, sort of on my left side. And this is the only remembrance I -- I see my arm sticking out to the left, and I’m laying like this. ...I had a pink shirt on that day. I had no idea what had gone on. I didn’t feel anything, I didn’t hear anything. As I began to try to focus on where I was, not knowing if this was a dream or not, I began to hear voices.

I remember hearing a voice come by me or come up sort of close to me and say, ‘Hang on, I’ll be back’; and the next thing I remember is being able to visualize this gray torso of a body, what turned out later to be an Oklahoma City policemen who carried several of us out of our office. ...

The next thing that I remember from hearing that voice was being lifted up and carried out what was left of the windows or what was. ... Mr. Yeakey asked me if I could walk; and I tried and could not; so he literally picked me up and carried me out of the building ... to a waiting ambulance.

Q. Were you placed in that ambulance?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you briefly tell us what your injuries were?

A. I had many, many shrapnel wounds from the glass and debris. I had in excess of 150 stitches. I had a fractured cheek. I had a fractured hand. I had staples in my head. I had something impaled in the back of my right leg ... which created a large open wound in the back of my right knee.