NEWARK, Del. (AP) — The topic was bipartisanship. The speakers: former Vice President Joe Biden and Republican Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

And as their conversation got going at the University of Delaware on Tuesday, both men lamented the Trump administration and the current culture in Washington.

Biden said 14 heads of state from around the world have contacted him for advice, including one European leader he wouldn't identify, who said President Donald Trump reminds him of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini.

Biden called Trump's behavior "absolutely bizarre."

"Violating the norms of personal conduct generates more anxiety and fear than any policy prescription that this president has annunciated," Biden said. "This breaking down of international and national norms is the glue that holds the liberal world order together, and holds together our system. That is what is being attacked and that's what's most dangerous."

Kasich stressed the importance of humility and goodness, both in government and in life outside of politics. Humility and love, Kasich said, are too often forgotten or overlooked.

"We see the failures in government, the inability to put the good of our society over the good of re-election," he said. "I look around at the rest of our culture. I look at Equifax, I look at Wells Fargo ... I look at these companies and say, is it about profit without value?"

Kasich added that he recently banned Wells Fargo from doing business in Ohio.

"When you look at our culture," Kasich said, "I begin to wonder, have we lost our way?"