Related topics

Excerpts From Brian “Kato” Kaelin’s Deposition

February 28, 1996

Excerpts from testimony of Brian ``Kato″ Kaelin during deposition in the wrongful-death lawsuit against O.J. Simpson:

On Nicole Brown Simpson’s fate:

``How did she say O.J. would kill her?″ asked lead plaintiff attorney Daniel Petrocelli.

``She said with scissors,″ Kaelin replied.

``Did she say what would happen to O.J. if O.J. did kill her?″


``What did she say?″

``She had said that `If O.J. would ever kill me, he’ll get away with it because he’s O.J. Simpson.‴

On Simpson’s discussions with ex-wife at daughter Sydney’s recital:

``I asked how the recital was, how Sydney was, and he said, `Oh, it was great,′ and all that and that Nicole wasn’t giving O.J. time with the kids and all that, and she was playing hardball with him with the kids and she can’t do that,″ Kaelin said.

``... What else did he say to you?″ Petrocelli asked.

``I think it was on the lines of playing hardball, that she has no right, you know, to take his kids. They’re his kids, too, that he has the right to see the kids, and she can’t just run off with them, and he was upset that she did.″

On Simpson’s demeanor after recital:

``Did he appear frustrated to you?″ Petrocelli asked.

``That’s good. Frustrated,″ Kaelin said.

``Would you say he was upset?″

``Objection. Leading,″ said Simpson’s lawyer, Robert Baker.

``I think more frustrated, actually. I think it was part of upset, but frustrated,″ Kaelin said.

``Did he appear to you to be upset about Nicole not letting him see the kids?″


Simpson interjects, ``Kids?″

Petrocelli responds, ``We need to have Mr. Simpson not make comments on the record that are audible. That’s very important, and it’s not fair to the witness.″

On his food run with Simpson the night of the murders:

``I felt I invited myself. I shouldn’t have. ... Maybe he wanted to be alone or something. Because, you know, I thought maybe he was feeling lonely or something, and he wanted me not to be around,″ Kaelin said.

On Simpson quiet about where they were going:

``By this time, had he told you where you were going to eat?″ Petrocelli asked.

``No,″ Kaelin said.

``Had he asked you what your pleasure was?″


``You get in the car and he gets in the car?″


``... When did you discover where you were going to eat?″

``When we pulled into McDonald’s.″

``... By the way, do you like McDonald’s food?″

``Not really. I don’t go very _ very rare.″

On Simpson’s demeanor during McDonald’s run:

``Did you feel that he pretty much didn’t want to talk?″ Petrocelli asked.

``Yes,″ Kaelin said.

``... (Was he) quiet?″

``Quiet. So I didn’t want to disrupt it. If there was thought going on, it was like OK, and I knew not to be talking anymore, but it was definitely my feeling that he was in deep thought.″

On how Simpson ate:

``Did he eat it (hamburger) slowly or quickly?″ Petrocelli asked.

``I think he ate it before we left McDonald’s. It was like immediate,″ Kaelin said.

``Like 10 seconds, it was down?″

``Ten _ yeah, it was right out of the parking lot and it was gone.″

On Simpson not going into house after McDonald’s run:

``I was figuring he was going in the house,″ Kaelin said. ``I thought he was behind me because I was walking fast and I didn’t even realize it, so that’s when I looked and I was surprised that he was by the door of the car.″

On mysterious knapsack:

``I walked up and I saw that knapsack there, so I started walking toward the knapsack because I thought that was supposed to be packed up, and I started walking to it and O.J. said, `No. I’ll get it,‴ Kaelin said.

``... Did he then start walking quickly to get the knapsack?″ Petrocelli asked.


``And did he overtake you?″

``Yeah. It was _ he passed me up, right.″

On Simpson before limo arrived:

``Did he appear that he had just gotten out of the shower?″ Petrocelli asked.

``Did not appear that way to me,″ Kaelin said.

On night golf:

``Had you ever seen (Simpson) swing a golf club on the property during the evenings?″ Petrocelli asked.

``No,″ Kaelin said.

On wondering about Simpson’s innocence day after murders:

``I was behind the chair where O.J. was and I just remember him with a tissue with blood on a finger, and I just was like in my head thinking, `Oh, I didn’t want to be right there (in Simpson’s house) at that time,‴ Kaelin said.

``... You were scared?″ Petrocelli asked.

``Yeah. I just didn’t want to think bad thoughts.″

```You were thinking bad thoughts?″


``What bad thoughts were you thinking when you saw the blood on O.J. Simpson’s finger?″

``I thought it was possibly that something _ O.J. could have done something.″

``You mean like murdered his wife?″

``Possible. I mean it crossed my mind.″

On what Simpson friend Mark Slotkin told Kaelin after murders:

``It’s O.J., man. Get your story straight,″ Kaelin said.

On Ms. Simpson saying she thought Simpson was spying on her:

``Nicole Simpson told you that you were being videotaped by whom?″ Petrocelli asked.

``By O.J,″ Kaelin said.

``And what else did you say? Somebody was spying on you?″

``She said, yeah, that `Your phone’s tapped.‴


``She was talking about O.J.″

``That O.J. was spying on you, tapping your phones?″

``Spying or that my phones were probably tapped, and I would say, `Why?‴

``What did she say?″

```Because he’s jealous.‴

On Ms. Simpson’s pregnancy:

``At certain points when she was pregnant, O.J. said, `You’re fat’ and I think, `You’re looking like a pig’ or `You’re getting fat,‴ Kaelin said.

On how Sydney reacted to witnessing her parents’ fights:

``She has this thing called a `nuck’ or whatever,″ Kaelin said. ``It was a blanket and she’d suck these fingers at all times, and she said she _ Nicole would say that she was doing that, she was like desensitized from all the shouting that went on, and she could sleep through all the fighting, and that’s amazing.″

On how Kaelin distracted children while Simpsons argued in car:

``I was in back with the kids and just keeping them occupied and joking with them, making jokes, and they were laughing or rolling into them _ doing goofy stuff,″ Kaelin said.

On Ms. Simpson’s feelings for Kaelin:

``She had told me one day that _ one night _ that _ she goes, `I think I’m falling in love with you.′ And I said, `No, no, no, you’re not,‴ Kaelin said.

On Ms. Simpson topless:

``Did she ever undress in front of you?″ Petrocelli asked.

``Not undress in front of me, but she was at the pool topless,″ Kaelin said.

On Ms. Simpson’s relationship with Marcus Allen in 1993:

``He had to park somewhere else (than in front of Ms. Simpson’s house) because if O.J. found him, he’d be really pissed,″ Kaelin said.

On why he testified at trial that Simpsons’ relationship was good:

``What I just said, though, was covering it by saying when I say `good relationship,′ when Miss (Marcia) Clark asked me, it wasn’t _ it was one question. She went into another one. I wanted to explain that. When they were in love, they were a great couple in love. When it was stormy, it was a bad couple. And I can’t answer exactly what goes on in someone’s mind, but it was this thing that if they were in love, it was great, but if they were going to be apart and _ it was a stormy relationship. It was never a set thing. It was always if they were in love, great, stay in love, but then something else would come up and it would draw them apart. And so the question that she asked me in court was a yes, and it wasn’t continued _ it wasn’t continued by her. Now that I can say in the deposition, that’s what it was. It was very stormy.″

On the boots Kaelin wore:

``Did (former Detective Mark) Fuhrman inspect your boots?″ Baker asked.

``Yes,″ Kaelin said.

``Did he go over and pick up the boots and look at the soles?″


``What kind of boots were they?″

``They were like a cheap kind of Doc Martens _ not Doc Martens, but a cheaper brand.″

``OK. Rubber soles?″

``I think so.″

``Do you still have them?″

``Plastic. Rubber. I think I have one of them. When there was a move, a lot of my stuff wasn’t ever accounted for.″

``Did those boots have similar patterns to the footprints that you became aware of at Bundy (crime scene)?″

Petrocelli objects, saying, ``Lacks foundation.″

``I don’t know,″ Kaelin said.

``All right,″ Baker said. ``Would you preserve the boot that you presently have of that set? Did you keep that boot?″

``I think so.″

``But will you keep that boot?″


``Till I get a subpoena on that boot?″

``Sure. I think I have _ I don’t know if I have it or not, but I will find out.″

Update hourly